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By glazou on Monday 21 June 2004, 18:05 - Bushisms
And here's the proof. I'm not so suprised it's Ray Bradbury.
I don't see how that's being stupid. He has control over the title, he should have a say as to how it's used. Granted it's a little late to do anything about it, but I think he's got a legitimate beef.
So all temperatures expressed in farenheits are (c) Bradbury ?
I agree with steeef. It's his title, the title of the movie was made specifically to reference Bradbury's title. Also perhaps Ray Bradbury doesn't want to be associated with the ideas presented in Farenheit 9/11?? This isn't being stupid. It's called using your rights when you feel it's appropriate, just like you can use your right to an attorney.
Oh also Daniel, I don't see how this is a "Bush-ism". Really it's more of a "Bradbury-ism".
Then let's not use the word Farenheit at all anymore since it is "protected". A good opportunity for the USA to switch to Centigrades.
All I see is a very good advertising for the next edition of the book to be released in eight weeks.
what's his right about a unit, which is just used everywhere?!
It's obviously not about the *word* "Farenheit". The TITLE is obviously a take-off from Bradbury's Title. RB has a right to deny use of his title, whether we agree with the decision or not.
Let's try to remember our "liberal" values!
Having the right to complain is different from complain. He is 83, his book is almost 40 years old. Come on...
That's totally correct, Daniel! Just because it's legal, doesn't make it right.
And Mike Myers doing the movie Goldmember, anyone?
Farenheit 451 is the exact temperature to burn books. Ray B. wanted to condamn the fight against culture in dictator countries. But nowadays, he uses himself a form of censory that is particularly disgusting !
But Ray doesn't ask permission to call his book "Farenheit 451" ! Farenheit is a generic term...
Patrick Sanchez: Celsius
Damien Bonvillain: He asked to use the name "Goldmember"; the Bond lot refused, so the film was entitled "Austin Powers in Goldmember" (apparently it makes a difference)
I suggest you to read (apart from Fahrenheit 411, an excellent book) << The future of ideas >> from Professor Lessig.
It speaks about how Walt Disney took the works of dozens of others and resample them (the original work from the brothers Grimms is not something you would read to your children
That being made, Disney made 11 times change the term of copyright to prevent others to do to Disney what Disney did to others. (The so called Mickey Mouse Copyright Act)
But Professor Lessig did not criticize Disney for taking the works of others. He calls them << my heroes >>. Because it's not a theft. Resampling should always be allowed, in order to protect creativity, because that's very much how the process of human creativity happens :
on the shoulter of geants
It don't think it unfair from Ray Bradbury to ask for politeness from people taking inspiration from his work. As far as I understand the problem, he felt concerned about the use of his very idea (the title of his book -being used as "Farenheit 911"- and his moto -being changed as "the temperature at which freedom burn"), and he expressed his concern well before the film was finished.
The production did not contact him back, which provoked this reaction. I'm quite sure he would have been delighted to let Michael Moore use "Farenheit 911" if he had been polite enough to credit him for inspiration for the title.
We live in an open world, where ideas can be exchanged freely, but where people like to be credited for their ideas and work. Why deny Ray Bradbury the right to express his displeasure when he feels he was not properly credited ?
Let's read what Ray says :
"he didn't ask my permission".
I really believe that, had Moore asked for permission, Bradbury would have felt proud to be credited for his inspiration and would have approved the title with pleasure.
Let's imagine someone used NVU's code to create his own html editor. If he was polite enough to tell you and credit you properly for his work, you would be thrilled by this kind behaviour. But if he just used your work without reference to NVU and all your work, you would feel this to be rude and unfair, even though the GPL allows him to act this way.
And what if he would have asked and Ray would have said "no"? Then we would better need to think of another title, so better not ask and just use it...
Moore just used the Farenheit and some numbers behind it, nothing special
"Farenheit 9/11" is nothing less than a hommage. RB is too stupid to realize that. Shame on him. In his book, people watch big screens all day and don't ever open a book because that is forbidden. Nowadays, people watch W lying on TV and never open a book because only the Bible worth it. I see similarities. But that is only my opinion.
RB Stupid? No.
Moore an impolite yank? Yes!
According to the article RB voiced his concerns six months ago and Moore only just got back to him. He deserves to loose any chance of using the title.
How would you feel about a new html composer, MyVU?
irongut: I won't care _at all_.
"So all temperatures expressed in farenheits are (c) Bradbury ?"
Why are you playing dumb? It's an obvious play on the title of Bradbury's book and you know it. You did read the article you linked to didn't you?
Don't be such a hypocrite Daniel. You would be plenty pissed off if someone took a famous book you wrote and used it to promote Bush and his foreign policy. And judging by the way you rant and rave on your web log, you certainly wouldn't keep your mouth shut about it. So why should Bradbury?
Will: Ray Bradbury has left F/451 has an icon of anti-autocracy, a so strong reference for people fighting freedom of thought that Moore **and a lot of other people before him** have reused the title in the same way. So what's happening to Bradbury today, complaining because a film reuses the title for the same purpose ?
I am not an hypocrite : you can't at the same time be the reference for "temperature to burn books" and the one suing a film like Moore's. I would not complain like he did if I was him. I would probably issue a public statement to give my opinion, and Bradbury's name is famous enough to be sure all medias will report about it, and nothing more.
Bradbury's name is famous enough to be sure the medias will report it; yes, it is! And considering that Fahrenheit 451 is just about to be republished, and a film is in the make, Bradbury could not have a better opinion to publicise his own work than another guy (like Moore) creating a huge media stir with a movie he did.
I don't know if that's the only reason for Bradbury (well, I actually think he's pissed off a little, too), but I'm pretty convinced he also likes riding media waves...
Hello out there
Looking from my side, one artist is inspired by the work of other artist. He then calls his work with a reference to his master' work. It is an allusion, reference, inspiration, not the copyright violation.
Moore should not ask for any permission, Bradbury should not complain.
It's a pity Bradbury is advocating the same devil he was fighting early on.
But, as movie is out in the cinemas, the dispute seems to be over.
Co-chairman of the W3C CSS Working Group, entrepreneur, software engineer, geek, father of two, polyglot, unashamed French, duck lover. Nah.
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